Vicky Truter interviews Deidré Mvula, a Production Editor and Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Specialist in the publishing industry about the projects she works on, her experiences as a woman of colour in the workplace, and her advice for early career project managers.
“We all have biases and we all need to be committed to working through them.”
Vicky Truter: Let’s start with an introduction. Can you tell me a bit about your job and industry and the nature of the projects you work on?
Deidré Mvula: I am currently in a hybrid role. I’m both a Production Editor, as well as a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) Specialist for Taylor & Francis, an academic publisher. I’m based in Cape Town, South Africa. Both my roles entail project management. I manage several journals and I’m responsible for making sure manuscripts move from acceptance to publication according to schedule. This entails working with multiple stakeholders – both internal and external. The DEI aspect of my role entails the promotion of inclusivity and diversity within the organization by getting involved, among other things, in setting up and reviewing policies and procedures, and convening committees which focus on different topics such as cross-cultural aspects, socioeconomic concerns and challenges associated with parenting and caregiving in the workplace.
VT: What is one of the most fulfilling projects you’ve worked on?
DM: One of the best (ongoing) projects I’ve worked on in my DEI role is a compilation of recipes from colleagues across cultures. We decided food is always a good vehicle to bring people together and to learn about cultures different to our own. The interest in this project was way more than I ever anticipated. It started out as an idea to share recipes and make dishes we’ve never made ourselves and it gained such momentum that we’re now planning a cross-cultural recipe book! The next thing I knew, we were considering production timelines, deciding on layout and a title for the recipe book!
VT: What are some of the challenges that you face as a woman in the workplace?
DM: Generally speaking, women are seen as taking on the main parenting or care-giving role in their homes. I think that COVID-19 forced people into remote working, and suddenly people had to find office space within their personal homes and children couldn’t go to kindergarten or to school which meant they had to be cared for in the same environment as their parent was working. This led to many women struggling to keep their role as ‘parent’ separate to their work roles. Don’t get me wrong, there are definitely men who are parents and caregivers too. But a lot of people I’ve spoken to happen to be women, and they have felt a lot of added pressure. I was speaking to a woman who is trying to raise a child and work remotely who said she felt like she had to overcompensate a lot, so she over-committed to doing things at work because she didn’t want to look like she was slacking. It makes me wonder if men would feel the same way – feeling this pressure to over-commit because you want people to take you seriously.
On a personal level, I often feel that women get side-lined in the workplace. A friend was told she shouldn’t apply for a promotion because our line manager at the time didn’t think she could cope with the added responsibilities of the new role and being a single parent. I am also conscious of the language I use at work. Often women are accused of using vague and open-ended phrases when they’re communicating in the workplace. I tend to use more direct and ‘assertive’ language when interacting with people; the same principle applies to my email correspondence.
VT: The focus of International Women’s Day is on women and revealing the challenges that women face, but I think that women of colour have experiences that white women just don’t have. I was wondering if you’d like to comment on that?
DM: This is going way back now to the first job I ever had, but I think it’s important. I assumed back then that all I needed to do was to work hard, meet deadlines, and make budget in order to have a successful career. Well, it didn’t happen like that. I was a diligent and hard worker and managed to outperform several of my colleagues. However, at one point I didn’t get a promotion because my line manager didn’t think I was ‘ready’ for the added responsibilities (without consulting me about it), so I decided to move on to a different company. It was only later that I realised that I looked and sounded completely different to people in more senior positions – including the person who got the promotion at my previous company. They also didn’t have the same cultural background as me. I grew up in Mitchell’s Plain in Cape Town which has very specific connotations in South Africa. A Google search would highlight that the area has many socioeconomic challenges and gangsterism is part of everyday life.
And that’s when I started – I think subconsciously – to code-switch. If you don’t know, code-switching is when you adapt your mode of communication to sound like the ‘other’. You tend to change your enunciation when you express yourself in workplace settings. In my case, I changed the way I spoke to not sound like someone who grew up in a so-called disadvantaged area. There have been numerous studies that show that people of colour code-switch all the time in their working environments. Because a lot of the time, or for me anyway, managers are often white men from privileged backgrounds. The moment I started to code-switch, I suddenly had a lot more people engaging with me because I became more ‘familiar’ and ‘palatable’.
Often, I’ve sat in production meetings at companies, and found that people would talk about my projects, but they’d address my manager as if I wasn’t in the room at all. People would know I was the project manager, but they seemed to prefer to communicate with a person from the same cultural background to themselves. These instances have implications when it comes to advancements and getting promoted. You’re often not asked to join large, lucrative projects because your line managers don’t think you’re ready and have enough experience to get involved with these projects.
VT: Has your workplace or industry has made any strides when it comes to gender equity?
DM: I think my current company is the most progressive company I’ve ever worked for. There is always room for improvement, of course. I would say that the publishing industry in general – at least in South Africa – is mostly populated by women which is a good starting point. However, they’re mostly white cisgender women from so-called privileged backgrounds. I think where the equity is missing in this industry is the lack of people from previously marginalized groups. I’m not just talking about gender or cross-cultural representation, we also need to adequately represent different religious groups and sexual orientations for instance. The changes need to be implemented right up to the higher levels of management, such as director level, and not just middle management. It’s not enough for employers to just focus on one aspect of identity.
VT: This idea of intersectionality is really important in that you can talk about women and gender bias, but there are so many other facets of one’s identity.
DM: Yes, companies make a big deal about informing people to bring their authentic selves to the workplace. However, my authentic self is different to your authentic self. I think a lot of us get the message that we can’t really be ourselves and also succeed. I think it’s limiting to try and isolate different parts of your identity. I can’t speak about being a woman without really speaking about my experience as a woman of colour, or a woman of colour who is from Mitchell’s Plain, or a woman of colour, from Mitchell’s Plain with tattoos and big hair! I certainly don’t look like any line managers I’ve worked with previously. Yet I think it’s important that this is put under a spotlight. Our prejudices and biases are so ingrained in us all that they actually need to be highlighted. And you need to hear different people’s voices and people from different backgrounds because you, like I, have biases. I wouldn’t necessarily know that I have biases until it’s pointed out to me. This is not just a ‘colour’ or ‘gender’ thing. It's an everybody thing. We all have biases and we all need to be committed to working through them because we can’t afford not to anymore.
VT: As a final question, what advice would you have for women or women of colour who are early in their careers?
DM: First, I would advise women early in their careers to find a sponsor – someone who can be their champion and who can introduce them to people they wouldn’t normally have access to. This is important to build a network in their prospective industries that can be utilised for future projects or career development. Note that, in my mind, a sponsor and a mentor are different. A mentor can offer you support relating to the day-to-day tasks in your job. A sponsor will help you progress your career and make those meaningful connections. Secondly, always treat your service providers with compassion, kindness and respect and they will oftentimes move mountains to help you. Always be willing to learn and don’t be afraid to volunteer for those big ‘scary’ projects. Put yourself out there. You have nothing to lose and so much to gain.